Edited: Fun, Cheap, and Clean

"Memphis Raines" (memph1sra1ns) 08/18/2013 at 16:20 • Filed to: None

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I don't post here much anymore but maybe just maybe my fellow oppoites can help me out here. No, no I'm not looking for a working girl. I'm looking for new car. I'm going to be asking a lot here so don't be offended if I don't like your suggestion. I have a lot of requirements for something in this price range. I suppose what I really is a unicorn. I want something under 10k (preferably 9k) that is as the title says fun, cheap and clean. I also prefer something with less than 100k miles, is usable in the winter (may need winter tires). It HAS to be a manual, and can be rwd, fwd, or awd however rwd is preferred if it's doable in the winters. For example a miata would not meet this because they are simply too low for chicago winters.

The two cars I have looked into thus far is the srt-4 and an rx-8. The SRT-4 promises a good bang for the buck. They had very underestimated power numbers. It would have to be an 04 or 05 because the 03 did not have an lsd and it had a less powerful tune and injectors. the issue with the srt-4 is that most of them have been beaten to hell and back.

The rx-8 is not as powerful as the srt-4. It is however rwd and has the interesting engine. It's a very nice car compared to pretty much anything else you can get for the price. The issue not only lies within it's worse fuel economy and insurance prices (87 a month vs 105) compared to the srt-4 but the fact that well the engine can go boom. It seems to be something that is rather random. When buying used your really trusting that the previous owner(s) have taken care of it. Something most people don't know how to do with cars. Has anyone had a really great semi reliable experience with an rx-8?

I want something that is fun. Fun to me doesn't mean huge horsepower. It means a decent power to weight...to an extent. A first gen miata while fun is also anemic (imo). I have a 2000 maxima and for the time it was quite fun. 225hp in a sedan for a first car was great. I want something that can pull a bit harder than that but also loves corners.

I know some of you are going to suggest an e36 or a 944 turbo. Just ...don't. As much as I love both cars they will have quite a few issues here and there. I'm tired of owning a car that has something that needs replaced every couple months. I Just don't want to deal with that, at this point. I know the rx-8 could break but at least your only worrying about a single thing (the engine). Really the oldest I would go is 2000 but would prefer something 04 and up, where the styling doesn't scream, you have a cheap car.

Suggestions? Thoughts? Ideas?

Thanks in advance oppo

PowderHound > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:26

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WRX?

dogisbadob > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:29

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The Saturn Astra is a great choice.

Also, the PT Cruiser GT is mechanically the same as an SRT4, but MUCH easier to find at a decent price. There's also the Caliber SRT4.

2003-06 Matrix XRS or Vibe GT or Corolla XRS

Scion xA or Toyota Echo/Yaris, reasonably fun with the manual, VERY cheap to run

Memphis Raines > PowderHound 08/18/2013 at 16:29

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I've thought about it. They are just a bit low on power, especially once you consider the weight and the power loss that comes from awd. That and most I find for 10k have a ton of miles or are in not that great of condition. It would have to be an 04 or newer, and finding that with my other reqs is a challenge.

Memphis Raines > dogisbadob 08/18/2013 at 16:34

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the PT Cruiser is cheaper for a reason. It weighs more. the suspension isn't as good.

The Caliber is above my price range, plus it got pretty poor reviews due to the increase in size and weight.

"2003-06 Matrix XRS or Vibe GT or Corolla XRS

Scion xA or Toyota Echo/Yaris, reasonably fun with the manual, VERY cheap to run"

If I was looking at those I would just get a 2002 maxima instead. Two years newer than my car and more power. They sell for a steal too in good condition just VERY hard to find in manual, the color I would want and with less than 100k miles. It's better than the saturn as well.

PowderHound > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:41

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They are fun once you tune them, stock not so much. But also buying a tuned car is usually pretty shitty.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:44

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Hey dude,

I'm actually selling a car that might actually fit you. It's an 02 Neon ACR, so Naturally Aspirated as to the SRT-4 (Better reliability, parts are cheaper). Also, mine went to SCCA National Championships in 2010 as a racecar, before being brought back to road-spec. So long story short, its the ideal racecar for the road- It still has the rollcage, bucket seat and belts, and adjustable rear struts, while also still having all 5 seats totally useable.

The FWD is pretty good in the snow (I live in CT, it did fine this past winter on All seasons) and its really a ton of fun. I bought it as a first car and was sort of reluctant at first considering I really wanted a RWD, but it surprised me. Amazing handling, smooth gearbox, great heel-toe setup, and very fun. Plus its cheap to maintain and cheap to deal with, along with low mileage (30k)!

My ebay auction just ended, but here's a link so you can get the pictures and the full story. Feel free to make an offer if you're feeling it, the worst I can do is say no.

Seriously, this really is the worst description over...if you're interested, definitely check the Ebay ad.

Happy searching!

CB > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:46

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If you want power and AWD, maybe a Legacy 2.5 GT? I found two in my area.

This one fits your price range, but the mileage is higher than you want.

This one has much lower mileage, but the price is higher than you want.

Then again, this probably isn't even the right car you're looking for. Oh well.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 08/18/2013 at 16:48

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Also, here's a link to when it was featured on the Daily Turismo.

Milky > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:49

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I faced the same predicament 8 months ago, and test drove lots of nice cars for the 10k price cap I gave myself. Some of my favorites were a modded Firebird that sure was the fastest but I felt like a redneck and couldn't stand the interior. The RX-8 was fantastic to drive but like you said the engine could go boom and that scared me away.

In the end I picked up this super clean Crossfire for 9k with 93k miles on it. You could get one with less miles but this one was mint. I'll also have you know I live in Detroit and it did just fine on all seasons through the snow, and its a blast drifting around Belle Isle.

I get compliments every now and then and am super happy with the car. But to be even more helpful, I REALLY wanted to find a S60 R to test drive, but couldn't even find one close enough (kind of rare). And you could pick any damn SC400 you want for that price.

Nerd-Vol > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:51

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What about an fbody trans am or camaro?

GhostZ > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 16:55

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http://www.jdmchicago.com/forums/showthr…

I've been watching this one for awhile. Price is down to 10,900 OBO, but it's incredibly clean. Turn the tuning down a bit and you could have a rock-solid street car, if you're okay with the bad (but not near as bad as the stock Neon) interior. It doesn't have an LSD, but it's got pretty much anything else you'd ever want. This one is super clean.

As for the RX-8, the engine doesn't just "break". Certain things go wrong, such as the apex seals, so if you know more about the engine to begin with, you can take care of it properly with good prevention. Reliability, I think, has way more to do with how the car has been driven, where the weakest links in the machine are, and regular maintenance, rather than how many miles it has or what brand made it.

If HP is your goal, and if you don't mind moving up in size, I'd look into a 2006-2007 Dodge Charger R/T.

For smaller and good handling, 10,000$ will buy you a very nice 24oSX (S14), if you can find one that hasn't been torn apart. Same goes for a 300ZX, if you don't mind an older car.

I'll post more ideas if they come to me.

GhostZ > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 17:04

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Oh, and if you don't bite on that awesome SRT4 in the other post I made, I would suggest that if you're really looking for speed and power, a mid-2000s daily driver won't cut it. You won't be able to hit over 350HP (Dodge Charger excepting, because it weighs two tons) for 10,000$ unless you either a: get creative with an engine build, or b: go with something lighter and less power, but better power/weight ratio.

Something like a 5.0HO (out of an 80s mustang) into a first-gen RX-7 though, would get you a power-to-weight ratio better than any SRT4 on the road, for less money. But you'll have other concessions you'll have to make. Stock power is expensive.

dogisbadob > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 17:28

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Well the very hard to find a manual basically rules out the Maxima, doesn't it? :p

My suggestions are much easier to meet that requirement. What do you have now?

Can you get a decent Cobalt or HHR SS for four digits? Because they'd be just what you're looking for!

An SVT Focus might also be a contender too.

You might be able to get a manual Accord V6 or a G35 within your budget. A Mazdaspeed 6 might even be possible too.

Why the 100k barrier? A Toyota with 200k is like a Chrysler or Wankel with 60k.

Memphis Raines > dogisbadob 08/18/2013 at 17:43

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It does. But it also means that I wouldn't settle for less when I know that car is out there lol. That's an odd viewpoint but I'm sure I could find one if I waited long enough. That or I would make concessions on color. I have a 2000 Maxima now. It really had a good deal of sporty-ness considering when it was made. The 2002 has and additional 25hp. Most people underestimate how good they are. It's not something that comes to mind for great bargain of a car, until you have had one.

The SRT-4 is better than the cobalt SS. It looks better. I like the interior more (gasp). It handles better. I just don't see the Cobalt as valid competition IMO. As far as the HHR, I'm not going anything because I'll just look like an ass. Guess saying that doesn't help much.

The SVT focus had pretty poor build quality. I know a couple that have owned them. They all ended up selling them or at least attempting to less than 6 months after getting the car.

The g35 is in my budget on occasion. It's a good car. It's one I hadn't mentioned but do look for now and then. Mazdaspeed 6 is another good option. Odd reason why I most likely would not get one though. My sister owns a regular six. I despise that car and know that the quality wasn't that great. I know they are very different cars, but the exterior and the interior are very much the same. i have not ruled it out all together. It just doesn't seem to do anything for me.

ghosty - electric space wizard > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 17:53

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This won't help at all, but I just had to say this: MEMPHIS!

That is all.

ghosty - electric space wizard > ghosty - electric space wizard 08/18/2013 at 17:56

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In all honesty though Mustangs are good bang for the buck and while I'm bringing up that kind of car I have to say Camaros as well. You know where my vote is on those two though ;) Focus SVTs can be fun also as dogisbadob already said.

My Stang is listed at $8900 at the moment btw....

dogisbadob > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 17:59

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Is her 6 a V6 or 4-cylinder? I know the V6's on those cars to be AWFUL.

Think of it this way: the MS6 is different from the regular 6 the same way the SRT4 is different from the regular Neon, but the SRT-4 is on your short list :)

The regular Neon is much worse than the regular 6.

How about a CTS? They've depreciates quite a bit, and you may even be able to get an early CTS-V in your price range, but I think even the non-V was available with a stick and had decent power.

I've heard bad stories about that generation Maxima quality/reliability as well. How has yours held up?

And what time frame are you looking to get your next car?

Memphis Raines > ghosty - electric space wizard 08/18/2013 at 18:02

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GHOSTY!

Also you say how great the mustang is, and then talk about selling yours. Hilarious lol. I love the sound of a v8 stang. LOVE. Might be my favorite all time car sound actually. The interior is pretty poor on a new edge mustang though. I'd rather gut it out and make it look like a race car than look at that every day.

Memphis Raines > GhostZ 08/18/2013 at 18:15

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I'd take this one in a heartbeat. I've been watching it as well lol. the issue is as you said no LSD and I have a feeling with that much power in fwd you really want an lsd. The stage three also concerns me. not sure how much longer the trans would hold up. Would detune instantly. Other wise its very very nice and clean.

GhostZ > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 18:46

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Does the 2004+ LSD fit on the 2003 model? I think looking into a swapping a differential into the car would still be a much better value than buying a worse condition, slower, and newer SRT4 with an LSD.

Also, I learned to drive on a 2001 Nissan Maxima. Wonderful cars. It was the 20th anniversary one with the Infiniti I30 engine and gold emblems. The speedometer went to 160, and I know at least once it had seen 150.

My first car, after learning to drive on that, I had to buy myself: a 1990 Nissan Maxima. I picked it up for $200 at the age of 15, it was falling apart and had a million electrical problems (it wouldn't start unless the driver's door was opened, for example) from a botched stereo job the previous owner had tried to do. Sold it a year later for the same cost.

Memphis Raines > GhostZ 08/18/2013 at 18:53

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It does fit. However getting a brand new LSD cost a grand, and count on another grand for install. For two grand you can get an 04 or 05 with an LSD and lower miles. In this case it's cheaper to get the newer versions. The 04 and 05 also have bigger injectors and a better tune. It has about 25-35 more hp even though dodge claimed it never changed.

Memphis Raines > dogisbadob 08/18/2013 at 19:07

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She has the four cylinder. You really have to push it to get around traffic. I got worse gas mileage in that than the maxima (had to drive it when the maxima was needing some love) just because I had to rev the nuts off of it almost all the time.

I still hate the MS6 interior. I would have a hard time just because even if it isn't a regular six it looks so much like my sisters car. It sounds weird but I'd hear so much of "oh your car car is so cute" and "it's just like mine" that I know it would make me hate it. It's a stupid reason but I guess that's just one of my many idiosyncrasies.

In a very similar fashion I would have a hard time getting a edge mustang. Just because one of my co-workers and long time friends is trading in his 370z for a new mustang in two weeks. I'd have the far inferior product. If you have something that doesn't belong to the same line then it doesn't appear that your trying to imitate. Just that you went your own way. Once again I know this sounds odd to everyone else, but my viewpoint tends to be looking through the viewpoint of everyone else. It's something I've always been good at but turns into a bit of a crutch.

Memphis Raines > dogisbadob 08/18/2013 at 19:21

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As far as reliability most of the stuff I have had to replace is pretty standard. All four struts. Front two hub bearings. It did have some oxygen sensor issues, had to replace three of those. Had to replace a couple electrical bits maybe a ignition coil? Can't remember that was awhile ago. Had to replace some other front suspension bits. Might be due to some fun I have had around corners. The starter and battery were replaced of course. I might have beat it to death but I can honestly say I have had more safe fun in that car than 95% of maxima owners. It's been good to me. There were no issues until it got to 140,000 miles, Now it's at 175,000. I've had a good run with her but sadly it's time to put her down. Or at least let someone who can't afford any better buy her. But between you and me and the rest of the interwebs it wouldn't be a purchase that paid off. It's want's to nickel and dime me to death. I'm waiting for the next repair. Actually I need to replace the cv boot and another front suspension bit soon. I just don't like putting money into it. It's like letting and old dog live. You don't want to see it go, but is it for your benefit or hers?

doodon2whls > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 19:37

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MR:

I like your taste in used cars. ;-)

Seriously, though - you are searching for a unicorn. In Spring of 2008, I put a 'wanted' ad out for a 2005 SRT-4 that was simple - not molested (no waste gate actuators, turbo kits, or other non-performance enhancing douchebaggery), adult owned, and less than 20K miles. I'd take any color, and option combo except for Side-Airbag seats - I could build out the rest if needed. I was able to locate my unicorn just 150 miles from home. I spent 90 minutes pouring over every space of the 2005 SRT-4 ACR in Orange Blast Pearlcoat with 19K miles on the ticker. I documented/highlighted issues for the seller in order to justify my 'lower than asking price' offer. Besides, I came with a check in hand made out to ChryslerFinance to pay off the lien on the title plus a little cash to sweeten the deal if necessary. In the end, my wife and I left in separate cars :-) ... I now have 109K on the car - it still pulls like a mad bull. Finding a low mileage and unmolested SRT-4 at a price you are willing to pay will be a challenge since they stopped production in September 2005.

Which leads me to recommend the unthinkable (as an SRT-4 owner/enthusiast): Find a used WRX. Seriously. If I weren't already predestined to own an SRT-4 for other reasons, I would probably be driving an MSP3, or WRX. I know you are looking to purchase the best bang for your buck but counting WHP on your abacus is only one important metric for your consideration. PLUS, a very lightly modded WRX can reliably make just as much WHP as the SRT-4, but it would be digging at all four corners .

Maintenance, parts availability, ride comfort, reliability, etc. etc. etc. are all important factors.

Choose wisely, and if you do find that unicorn, I want to see pics.

-dood

Memphis Raines > doodon2whls 08/18/2013 at 20:04

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Some great advice. Thanks.

http://tinychat.com/jalopnik

Idk if you like to waste time as much as I do, but you should join us here sometime. I'd love a chance to ask you more questions about your experiences with a srt-4 if possible. Won't be on but fifteen more minutes tonight. I will however be on around 6-ish tomorrow.

ThatCrazyGu > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 20:24

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I call BS on the Miata not being able to make it through Chicago winters. I DD'd an NB (albeit with taller 185/65/15 snow tires) in Upper Peninsula Michigan, and I never got stuck, nor did I ever encounter a hill I couldn't climb. Also, I highly doubt an RX-8 would be much, if any better when placed in a similar situation.

SpeedSix > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 20:35

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Volvo 850R

Eddie > Memphis Raines 08/18/2013 at 21:40

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http://www.cars.com/go/search/deta…

I found a bmw m3 convertible for 8k

ghosty - electric space wizard > Memphis Raines 08/19/2013 at 01:19

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You've caught me haha, I do talk it up though I've been trying to sell. I'm just trying to get a little money in my pockets is all. Mine is actually the year before the new edge styling took place. So in other words I kind of have the ugly Mustang generation (barring the Mustang II of course).

William Byrd > Memphis Raines 08/19/2013 at 08:21

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Modern Eleanor. Done.